Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.
“Rollo, how do I get out of the Friend-Zone?” Never allow yourself to get into it.
Women have used the LJBF (“let just be friends”) rejection for a hundred years because it serves an ego preservation function for her. To a greater or lesser degree, women require attention and the more they have of it the more affirmation they experience, both personally and socially. The LJBF rejection is a Social Convention that has classically ensured a woman can reject a man yet still maintain his previous attention. It also puts the responsibility for the rejection back on his shoulders since, should he decline the ‘offer of friendship’, he is then responsible for entertaining this ‘friendship’.
This of course has the potential to backfire on women these days since the standard AFC response will be to accept an LJBF rejection in the mistaken hope of ‘proving’ himself worthy of her intimacy by being the perfect ‘surrogate boyfriend’ – fulfilling all her attention and loyalty prerequisites with no expectation of reciprocating her own intimacy. I should also point out that this situation is analogous to men using women as “fuck buddies” – fulfilling all his sexual availability needs with no expectations of reciprocating commitment. Needless to say this merely positions the new “friend” into being the ‘emotionally supportive’ Beta counterpart to the indifferent Alpha she’ll consistently bang and then complain about – also popularly known as the Emotional Tampon.
The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation for her in that having offered the false olive branch of ‘friendship’ to him in her rejection she can also sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. After all, she offered to be friends, right? She is absolved of any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him.
Men get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the “friends first” mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection (Buffer) is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.
Virtually all guys who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with some variation of what I call a Sniper Mentality. They patiently wait for their one target, to the exception of all others, constantly attempting to prove their quality in doing so – meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like “other guys”) because they’ve bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he’s mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she ‘should’ be comfortable enough to appreciate him as boyfriend material, the Sniper takes his shot.
The problem with this process is that it bypasses essential stages of attraction and the necessary discomfort and sexual tension necessary for intimacy and proceeds directly to a warm familiar, comfortable, (and ultimately anti-seductive) rapport, the exact opposite of arousal. If you think about this in terms of sex, this is the stage right after climax when she wants to cuddle, spoon and be wrapped up in her nice, secure oxytocin induced comfort. This is the opposite of the testosterone fueled, sweaty, anxious and uncomfortable stage of arousal and intercourse before that release. So in terms of “friendship” and the Sniper mentality, you’ve skipped arousal and gone straight to comfort. You’re perceived as a stuffed animal she can hug and then put back on the bed. Thus, when that previously platonic stuffed animal uncharacteristically gets a hard-on and says “I think we ought to be intimate” her reaction is to think that everything you’ve done for her up to that point has been a grand ruse. “My God, all you wanted was sex this whole time?”
Her most predictable response is then the LJBF rejection. The field has already been tilled by you, it’s only one, very easy step for her to stay in that suspended comfort – “can’t we just be friends?” And then the cycle repeats. The AFC believes the LJBF is a genuine offer (not a rejection) and then falls back into the Sniper mentality. He mustn’t have been convincing enough to prove his worth to her and therefore returns to further proving himself as the perfect boyfriend until he once again presses his intent of intimacy after another period. All this goes on apace until she becomes intimate with a ‘real’ boyfriend and/or he acquires a new target after realizing his efforts with the LJBF girl aren’t bearing fruit.
The problem with a lot of the ‘friend-zone’ advice women tend to offer is that they cast doubt on whether a LJBF rejection is in fact a rejection and not a genuine offer of friendship. To which I’ll say, the only reason the ‘friend-zone’ is such a common issue among men & women for so long is because it’s been repeated so regularly and the outcome so predictable as a rejection. A woman’s behavior is always the only gauge of her intent, and thus when a rejection like LJBF has been so consistently met with the same outcome and behavior (as evidenced by thousands of identical stories from men) it’s only prudent for a Man to behave in kind.
A man’s default response should always be to excuse him from the LJBF situation. The reason for this is because it serves his best interest whether she is testing him or is rejecting him. If he is confident enough in himself to walk away from the sexually tense environment, he proves himself as decisive enough to put himself above being ‘played’ like this. Ergo, he leaves her with the impression that he is the PRIZE, possibly has contacts with better prospective women and is confident enough to take away his attentions from her and thus passes any shit test she might have implied, while placing the responsibility of a re-connection on her (where it should be anyway). If she has in fact had a change of heart (her prerogative, remember?) and is using the LJBF as a means to reject him, he still benefits from all of the above and plants the ‘seed of doubt’ in her about her initial estimation of his acceptability for her intimacy. And even if she is truly not interested in the guy, he walks away on his feet and not his knees, by playing “friend” with her and wasting still more time that could be far better spent with more productive prospects.
It is really one of the few win-win Game situations for a guy to make a wholesale withdrawal of his attentions when he is confronted with an LJBF. Women know all too well how an LJBF places social pressure on a guy to accept what basically amounts to an ultimatum of negative social proof, and that’s a hell of a shit test no matter what her real intent is. If the guy turns down her offer of friendship, he’s the dickhead, not her. But the guy that can do what common sense and gut instinct points out to him will be the one to succeed, with her, other women and himself.
Human being’s natural inclination is to avoid confrontation. When a man makes an approach to intimacy with a woman this becomes confrontational. If she is unsure of a man’s sexual acceptability for her intimacy she must resort to psycho-social, learned behaviors to diffuse this confrontation. Preferably these techniques should be reinforced beforehand and proven to diffuse just such a confrontation, thus the LJBF response is acted out through generations of women across many different cultures – quite simply it works more often than not. You can also apply this to the Boyfriend Disclaimer; women who not-so-nonchalantly weave into their casual conversation that they have a boyfriend in a preemptive effort to diffuse a potential suitor’s interests. It’s basically a proactive LJBF rejection.
It’s the guy who is unwilling to accept these conventions that makes the most lasting impressions of confidence with women. It goes against what our common human heritage dictates for us – avoid conflict, don’t make waves, be her friend, etc. By not accepting a LJBF you emphatically make known that you are good at confrontation, you have an understanding of her motives and you’re confident enough in yourself to make it known. Not only does this impress her with potential for security provision it also implies future confidence. The problem for most guys is enacting this and making it a default behavior when our biology would have us move away from conflict rather than engage in an unacceptable social dynamic that is subtly damaging to his own interests.

September 19th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Five years ago, I stopped having any single women as friends, unless FWBs; I decided I will not be LJBFd. I realized I derived no benefit from having a single woman as a friend, because there’s nothng I could do with them that I couldn’t do with my buddies, and in fact, usually less (since guys like guy stuff, and women like buying clothes), so… there’s no point. I kicked my one remaining female friend to the curb, and have had no regrets. I had one FWB this summer, till she tired of it. Her loss. I got what I wanted out of the situation, more or less.
September 19th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
A comment at Solomon II’s site:
“If I’m not fucking you now, fucking you soon, or using you to fuck other girls, you’re useless to me.”
September 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Looking back to my college beta days, I made so many mistakes it isn’t even funny.
1. Accepting “friendships” with “LJBFs”
2. Not figuring out that “LJBF” does not really mean what it says
3. Having too many women as platonic friends. It makes you a beta orbiter even if you don’t intend to be one. The only men who hang out with women are LJBF beta orbiters, or gay.
4. Having too many, um, homely women as platonic friends. Not too many things DLV like hanging out with women you aren’t banging, especially homely women.
September 19th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
I didn’t intend this to be an essay on the legitimacy of inter-gender friendships (I’ll get to that), but rather seeing the LJBF as what it is, a rejection.
September 19th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
This one of the few concepts I did figure out by the time I got to college. I had no problems making friends and I realized (in high school) the women that said such a thing never followed up on even being friendly, let alone more. So I’d just say: Thanks but I’ve got enough friends.
Where my biggest mistake was, as you point out, Rollo, was putting the cart before the horse – comfort before attraction. If one thinks about the Matrix in which we were raised, it’s a perfectly logical error to make but a huge one nonetheless .
September 19th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
What sometimes still happens to me, is that I meet a woman that I find attractive and get on really well with… and I forget myself and before I know I’ve been talking with her for 4+ hours and I haven’t made a proper move yet.
It’s not easy to go back and try and set a sexual frame… I do it anyway but the results are less good than when I set that frame much earlier.
September 19th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
I agree Rollo. Sexual attraction is almost instant with most people. Therefore, no man should have to build it with a woman. If she is trying to LJBF you, it should be clear she has no sexual desire for you – at least not initially. But I find its rare that over time sexual attraction develops for men who you don’t have an immediate sexual desire for early on.
If a man chooses the LJBF status, then hopefully its b/c he really just wants to be friends and nothing more. Otherwise i think its best for both parties to not muddy the waters and save themselves the drama later.
Plus people should ALWAYS stick to one simple general rule of thumb when it comes to relationships – RECIPROCATION. Be it sexual or non sexual relationships. never give what someone is not willing or able to give back to you is my philosophy.
September 19th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
I never been LJBFd. Probably because I broke up with most of my girlfriends. However, any guy should realize that its just a girls way of letting you down easy.
September 19th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Realistically, I don’t know why LJBF is one of the main topics on the Game/Manosphere blogs. Everyone should already know that it means a girl is just not interested in having sex with you. Its so damn elementary.
September 19th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
Cat:
It really is elementary. In a sense I knew that LJBF meant “I don’t want to have sex with you” but we couldn’t put that into words.
Where the manosphere has been most helpful is instruction and coaching on what to do after you get the LJBF. Usually I’d try to be nice and “prove” myself though I knew i had no chance with the girl. Exactly the wrong thing to do. The manosphere tries to teach that after an LJBF you blow the girl out; you don’t hang with her; you don’t invest another second of time or resources.
This also shows men the power they have in the SMP. Sure, women hold the sex card. But men hold the investment and commitment card. And so many men don’t even realize that the women are looking for investment and commitment. They don’t realize the leverage they have and could have.
February 14th, 2012 at 11:41 am
It should be elementary, but way too many men were taught by their mothers (including myself) that you can “nice” your way into a girl’s heart (and pants). Accepting the LJBF and plowing forward is doubling down on that strategy that their mothers said was a sure thing.
September 19th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
There are always newcomers, though, Cat Patrol; ‘red pill’ takers whose eyes are just being opened. Gotta share with them…
September 19th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
Neecy says:
“I agree Rollo. Sexual attraction is almost instant with most people. Therefore, no man should have to build it with a woman. If she is trying to LJBF you, it should be clear she has no sexual desire for you – at least not initially. But I find its rare that over time sexual attraction develops for men who you don’t have an immediate sexual desire for early on.”
Great advice Neecy. Looking back, nearly all the sex I’ve had with women was with ones who I had sex with on the night I met them. You got to strike while the iron is hot. Don’t give them time to change their minds.
September 19th, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Boy, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh, because it’s true; cry because I spent a lot of my younger (AFC) years doing the LJBF dynamic hoping it would turn into a romantic/sexual relationship. Boy was I wrong! And boy did I waste a lot of time doing this. Women really shouldn’t do this fraud game and guys shouldn’t buy it. Today, I have one woman as a friend and we’ve been friends for years … I’ve never been sexually attracted to her so I have no agenda. The others whom I tried to keep the LJBF going? They’ve never contacted me since. It’s a loser/fraud game for men, and really it is for women, too. There’s nothing to be gained by mincing words.
Great blog, I’m enjoying it very much.
September 19th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
The way to handle BF disclaim is to act like she never said it and keep going, whereas walking away is answer to LJBF.
September 20th, 2011 at 10:33 am
Thank God I figured this out when I was 18 or so.
I’ve had, one, perhaps two, LJBFs but I could tell they were rejections, so I set my attentions elsewhere. Now, I was beta as beta could be, but damn, It really pisses me off that guys will actually *accept* an LJBF. It’s fine to accept it if the girl is in your social circle and you have casual contact with… her, but one-on-one time? Hell no.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Man can be friends with a woman…but it has to be on his terms. Having female friends helps build a social circle, and gives you social proof. They will even cook food for you, and find girls for you. You have pre-selection and social proof. They like doing these things for you, even if you are not banging them. Because of the comfort level, you can flirt with them in front of your date, and it will get the hamster spinning.
One should not be beta who kisses her ass. Even when you are friends with a girl, you should be alpha.
September 20th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
This.
“If I’m not fucking you now, fucking you soon, or using you to fuck other girls, you’re useless to me.”
and this.
“Man can be friends with a woman…but it has to be on his terms. Having female friends helps build a social circle, and gives you social proof. They will even cook food for you, and find girls for you. You have pre-selection and social proof. They like doing these things for you, even if you are not banging them. Because of the comfort level, you can flirt with them in front of your date, and it will get the hamster spinning.”
It’s not about “not being friends” with women, it is about not accepting a parasitic relationship. Female friends are AWESOME as long as it isn’t a one sided arrangement. I can’t tell you how much fun I have had having women in my social circles. As long as you maintain the proper frame there is never any danger of falling into the trap of providing her with attention at the expense of your balls.
October 11th, 2011 at 1:56 am
I agree completely. One of the most powerful and influential friendships I’ve ever had was with a brilliant man who I had a good deal of respect for who essentially help transform the way I viewed the world completely. He challenged me mentally and emotionally and his work continues to effect my life on a day to day basis as I refuse to be complacent and continue to seek personal and intellectual growth. In short, he changed my life for the better and I often say that I really can’t imagine how my life would have been had I not crossed paths with him when I did.
The only problem was that he wanted to fuck me and i certainly did not want to fuck him. In many ways, I was fond of him and I admired his brilliance, but it was more so like looking up to a big brother than anything. He tried a few times to no avail to turn the relationship sexual until he became frustrated after 2.5 years and decided that we were in a lop-sided friendship where I was mainly the person receiving any benefits from the relationship (life, career, guy advice, etc) whereas he didn’t see any real benefit being reciprocated. I was a little annoyed by this, but was able to extricate my contentions out of the situations in order to concede. He was simply absolutely right. The resentment was growing more apparent with every story I would tell him about one guy or the other and eventually he limited our convos to only those philosophical in nature or abstract ideas/theories. Shortly afterwards, we stopped talking completely. I wasn’t sorry to see him go honestly, our time together was well-spent and I gained and grew so much from it. To this day, I think of him fondly. We have made some correspondences here and there, but they’ve been limited to email and it’s possible we’ll never talk again. All in all, he’s one LJBF that I have the utmost respect for.
October 11th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Woman: “I think of you as a big brother.”
Translation: “I’d consider sex with you to be incest.”
October 12th, 2011 at 11:29 am
[...] you’re operating in her frame. Are you in the ‘friend-zone’ or did you accept an LJBF rejection? You’re in her [...]
November 24th, 2011 at 1:37 am
One of the more gut-punching experiences of my life has been the preemptive LJBF, before the man has actually made any overt moves and often when I am not particularly interested in the woman in the first place. It always mindfucks me as to whether I am really not in control of the signals I am sending or if she just has a hair trigger paranoia that everyone is hitting on her (or feels the need to reject men to feel like she has options).
February 14th, 2012 at 10:37 am
[...] is a very common dynamic for women when a Man outright refuses an LJBF rejection, or he ‘goes dark’ on her with a No Contact cutoff. From a behavioral perspective, [...]
February 14th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Good stuff.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:53 am
[...] their brother (i.e. she’ll consider sex with you to be incest) or worse still, one of their girlfriends. If this happens your odds with hooking up with any of them is greatly [...]
May 15th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
This was a great post, I like learning from my mistakes. Thanks.